Apparently, a guide that used to carry a guides license decided not to keep up with renuing his license but still guide. He charged an undercover agent $150 for a trip down the kalama. What he got was his Alumaweld drift boat, trailer and 8 rods and reels confiscated and up to a $2,000 fine. Hope that sends a message out there to the people who are guidig without licenses.

~steelymann~

The guide was Harvey Van Brunt of Rip Some Lips Guide Service. The report was in 'The Columbian' newspaper (Vancouver, WA) this morning. I was just at one of his seminar's on spring Chinook fishing on the Kalama and Lewis Rivers. He seems like a very knowledgable guide. But, apparently, not very smart......

WDFW has been cracking down on commerical guides lately. If I recall, they had a big bust of illegal guides in Chinook, WA in late August 2003. Too many folks guiding for $$'s without a State license. Come on guys...... what's with that!?

Ain't that somethin'? I'm not in favor of bogus guides charging clients and not following the rules, but why all the stings against guides who cater to recreational fishers that contribute significantly to the economy? Why aren't there more stings orchestrated with the commercials in their sights? Or more effort put towards the natives following the rules?

The focus should be what is best for the state's economy and environment.

What does it take to be a licensed guide?

You can check out the requirements on the WDFW web page.

Tribes are regulated by tribal enforcement.

shouldnt that be Tribes are Non-regulated by tribal enforcement.

I understand, Jerry, but who oversees the enforcement over Tribal Enforcement? Like the US Attorney General has enforcement over our local police sort of thing. Is there a federal agency that controls and monitors Tribal Enforcement?

Don't mean to hijack this thread, however.

Good for enforcement-

That's one of the main reasons for it...It is supposed to send a message..Now lets get the message out to the many other "sportsmen" out there who violate the rules...

I think that WDFW should start a reserve officer program that would train interested people in enforceing the hardest hit resources..They also should have a training program like they used to for local law enforcement so they can help out. Right now...there are a lot of cops that dont know anything about the problem and dont care, but yet have the power to help crack down..I have seen local Sheriff's and Police watch snaggers and other violators and not even blink an eye because their department discouraged that type of enforcement and they didn't know what they were looking at. On the other hand, in the old days, when they worked together, I saw a deputy pull an Indian net out of a creek that was stretched bank to bank. He just hooked it up to his winch on the blazer and out it came full of dead and dying kings....

Goharley,

- Thread hijack -

Tribal enforcement enforces tribal regulations. Any enforcement officer, federal, state, or tribal, may take enforcement action against a suspected treaty fishing violation by a treaty fisherman. Generally, the citation is transfered to the appropriate tribal court system for processing. WDFW only refers such citations to the state court system when it has evidence that previous citations were not reasonably processed by tribal courts.

Any enforcement officer can seize illegal fishing gear, like an unattended gillnet, because the operator of the gear is unknown. If the violator is not a treaty Indian, only state and federal agents can cite him or her. Tribal enforcement is limited to actions toward treaty fishermen of the same tribe. There are only a few cases where tribal enforcement officers are cross-deputized with local law enforcement organizations.

Tribal officers are limited in the actions they can take on non-tribal violators even on reservations, according to a federal court ruling from the 80s. Maybe Todd recalls the details. However, I wouldn't recommend that a non-Indian attempt any law violations on an Indian reservation; they would probably still make your life pretty miserable while waiting for non-tribal backup.

I hope that helps clarify law enforcement issues, but now I'm not so sure . . .

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

That may be the letter of the law, but I wonder how often, if ever, it happens in the real world.

Does anyone publish any statistics on this?

Salmo G.
You are right on.. I would like to also add that Tribal Officers can only detain a non-indian until regular law enforcement gets there. They cannot pursue off the reservation unless it is a felony crime that occurred on the reservation. On the other hand, most agencies have an agreement with tribes that allow them concurrent jurisdiction. In Thurston County, the Sheriff's office has jurisdiction on all felonies and juvenile offenses...as well as all non-indians.

Thanks, Salmo.

SQ: Dunno how often the tribal enforcement works, but I did see it in action on Quilicene bay last year. Tribal enforcement officer had binoculars on tribal members netting inside the boundary. He said serious tickets were going to greet them when they got back to the dock.

I had approached him to get some enforcement on the mouth breathing, knuckle dragging inbred idiots in town who were snagging blatantly. He said he had already written a ton of tickets and was up to his ears in paper work, but wanted to be sure and bust the Indians who were violating their rules.

Let me ask for a little clarification, Dave. Did you say a tribal officer was writing tickets for snagging in the Quilcene? To whom? Natives? or White guys?

As far as I have been led to believe, it is legal to snag if you are a tribal member. It is common practice, disheartening to watch, but none the less, common.

As far as tribal cops writing tickets to White guys, I thought they just detain the violator until a local cop shows....am I wrong?

Fun5: I am trying to remember whom he worked for. Sebastes was with me and perhaps can remember better than me, but I thought it was a tribal enforcement officer.
I know he said he was about to ticket some tribal netters, working near the head of the bay that he was watching with his binoculars. And I THINK I remember him saying he had written a ton of snagging tickets on the river. (He may have said that the state game warden had been writing a ton of tickets.) I will ask Sebastes to help me remember whom he was working for and will let you know his recollection of events.

I do know none of the snaggers we saw appeared to be Indians. In Quilicene it seemed to be a family bonding experience to snag fish. There were entire families out doing it. They were blatant about it. It was so ugly we had to leave. In addition to the hatchery coho they were snagging there were some scarce summer chum mixed in with them. I saw one guy kick a chum back into the river. I wanted to speak up but there were at leaser 30 people just above the bridge and I was a coward.

Dave,
Don't feel bad for being a coward.
I am also a coward in those situations, even with the company of my friend, Ed Kimber-45.

Dave, I might call it cowardice if there was one or two guys. If there are 30 knuckle draggers, you are being prudent. No shame in living to call in poachers another day.

I was fishing a river last year and this guy told me that native americans can snag if they want to and it is not against the law. Not trying to start anything but is this true? Also when I was fishing Icicle for kings I saw couple of native americans snag bunch of them in the pools above the closed the area (open for them) and everybody said it was ok and they can do it.